The Keys to Being and Finding a Credible Coach and Mentor

Ep 17 Maria: [00:00:00] When Peter Erik and I started teaching entrepreneurs to build an online business, it was a bit hard for me to have total certainty in the process and tell people that this is the way to do it. In this episode, Peter Erik and I are discussing how do you keep your certainty? How much trust do you need to have in your own process? When do you believe that there are other ways that people can do it? And what kind of mentors should you choose for yourself? This is Scaling Life. We are your hosts, Maria Rygge and Petter Erik Nyval. To 10x your business, you also need to 10x your life. And each week we’ll share real time stories on how to develop a resilient mindset, embrace failure and master your entrepreneurial growth. We will share the highs and lows of scaling our own seven figure business, taking care of our mental and physical health, balancing entrepreneurship with family responsibilities and enjoying a location independent lifestyle.[00:01:00] Scaling life is your real world, real life. strategy guide for life and business. Now, let’s get started. Maria: But there’s one thing I need to talk to you about. And that is us as mentors and teachers promoting the best solution or the best method to do things. You know, Petter Erik: you scare me when you say there’s something I need to talk about. That’s like, that’s typical women when they’re talking about something super serious. So no, I get scared. Maria: Okay. So let’s see where that takes us. my thing is that as mentors and role models, we are promoting our solution, like our method to do things. And I wanted to have this, this talk with you because I had that talk with you before. And, and sometimes I feel. That I just have to tell people like this is the only solution that is going to work, which is not what I really believe in, because I think there are different solutions to, to a problem. And there’s also [00:02:00] different methods that that work. But you always had more certainty than me on, like, just promoting our methods. So can you say something about your thoughts about that? Petter Erik: so I think the biggest problem for entrepreneurs is that they are We call it scattered. Is that the right word? Yeah. They, for example, go to social media and they go to YouTube and they go every places and they find out the expert is saying, you have to do Instagram, you have to do Snapchat, you have to do Pinterest, you have to have a funnel, webinars is not working anymore, webinars is working, three videos is the best thing you should do events, you should do virtual event, you should do all this thing. And the point is like, Yeah, everything works. But you need to follow a structure on it. So I’m not saying that our solution is what is I believe is working best. I need to say that. Yeah, I think what we are teaching is working best. But there is other, many other things that also are working. The problem with a lot of entrepreneurs is like they are taking [00:03:00] part of Pinterest, part of Instagram, part of webinar, part of doing this part of part and part and, and then they just like, they get overwhelmed, they get burned out, and they’re sitting there and don’t know how to take action. And they’re just like, and then it goes six months without making money. That’s the problem with entrepreneurs. Maria: And what I what I’ve come to see and come to understand is that people are choosing a mentor or or a teacher to be told what to do. Like, they want a clear process, they want someone to say, like, first you do this, and then you do this, and then you do that, and then you do that, and then you get these results. So that’s our job, that’s what people are actually paying us for. But, but then, if somebody comes to you and they, they doubt the method, what, what do you tell them? Petter Erik: it’s works. That’s what I’m telling them. It works. Uh, yeah. I think like, yeah, one thing to be a mentor expert in what everything you’re doing, is people will challenge you. Um, they will challenge what you’re saying. They will [00:04:00] challenge. I think every everyone were looking for a mentor will adapt. They think like this is not working. so it’s kind of things into this thing you’re talking about. But I think like I need to show my self confidence that this is working because if if I start to think like now maybe it’s a better a better way to do it, then I’m just giving them less certainty. I think it’s like talking about sales. When you’re trying to sell something, you need to be more certain than the person you’re going to sell to. The same thing when you’re a mentor, you need to be more certain than the person that you’re mentoring that this will work. And then they start to believe it because I think there’s a lot of methods that are working, but if someone doesn’t believe it, it’s really hard to follow through. to go through it and get it done. So what do you think about it? Maria: Now, honestly, I figured out when I started thinking about this podcast episode that my journey from when we started teaching has I like my, my thinking about it has changed a lot, because I [00:05:00] remember in the beginning, I was really uncomfortable with promoting, like, the method or the solution, although I knew that the method that we promoted had worked for us. But of course, also, we didn’t have as much proof, because we, it was like, we were the proof in the beginning, we started just doing it for ourselves, and then people started asking, and then we started teaching. But the more proof we got, the more easy it is for me to have that certainty that you talk about, like this method is actually working. But for me, there’s always this balance between this method is, is working. And also for some people, maybe this method isn’t the right method. my thinking is those people won’t be our clients and the people that are our clients, they come to us because they believe in our method and because they like our way of teaching. And because there are certain things about our method that. That attracts them to us, and then my job for them is to, to be certain, and, and I am, and also what I find is with, with experience that I know much more about [00:06:00] the things that people do wrong. So I can, when somebody’s challenged me and say like, yeah, but I think maybe I should rather try this instead, I can say, yeah, you can, but I’m not sure if it’s a good idea because this and this person did that, and then this and this happened. So there’s something about getting that confidence and proof. and kind of knowledge about what will happen if you try different options. And I think one of the things that, that I think you’re really, really good at, and I’m learning from you all the time, is that to, to keep people focused. Because I, I agree with you, like one of the problem is like, one day they have, like a person has this idea, and the next day they have this idea, and then now they’re not doing anything because they’re just sitting there and trying to figure out which idea is the best idea. So there’s something about just kind of giving, um, the, the certainty and the next step always to say like, okay, so now we’ve done this. And now this, we look at the numbers and now this thing isn’t working. And now we have to do this. We have to change it in this way. And also like when we work with webinar funnels, we always look at the scorecard for when people have [00:07:00] done the webinar, we look at the result and we look like where, where is the weakest link. And some people tend to try to like fix everything at the same time. But it’s also something about like being able to point them to actually where they should focus. I think that’s something that people are paying a lot for, because this, this, as you say, there’s so many methods, there’s so many mentors, there’s so many ways to do things that everyone gets a bit like, if they’re not, if they’re not kind of fully focusing on one method. Petter Erik: So I think it’s also two things about, or I’m thinking two things about this thing, it to be different perspectives, because one, it’s, uh, I don’t think it’s a one business model that fit every entrepreneur we are talking with. And I think you need to think about business model is one thing. And the business model is basically how do you want to have your business? How do you want to live your life? How do you want to have it? Because this is different from entrepreneur to entrepreneur. So in that case, there is not [00:08:00] like, I think when I’m mentoring people, it could be different business model that I’m helping them with. and the sales and marketing is just a small part of it. So the method that we are teaching is small. So there is like a big picture to think about how do you want, you want to work? Do you want a week? Do you want to work 12 hours a week? Do you want to have a lot of live session? Do you want to meet people? Do you want to? It’s all this thing, like, how do you want it? And I think also there is scary for a lot of entrepreneurs that they’re trying to fit into it. A concept that others business model is because that’s maybe doesn’t fit in in how they want to live their life So there’s like one thing is the method like I think a lot of entrepreneurs doesn’t focus enough on sales and marketing They’re focusing too much on delivering their program and not thinking about sales and marketing What fascinated me most is like people doing two launches per year and that’s all they’re selling and if one of them screw up You just lost half of your income So it’s more about, I want to help [00:09:00] people to understand that you need to have a business model that are making money every week, not by launch model with online courses, who are a lot of people have started with. I think that’s also stress people because a lot of people come to us or they have heard at all, you should do a big launch, you should have a big event, you should do all this thing. That is really, if you don’t have anything between and one launch doesn’t work, it’s pretty bad. It’s where people get burned out, stressed, And someone maybe likes it. I’m not saying that everyone gets dressed up, but if someone comes to me and is like, I love to do launches two times a year! Let’s spend 100, 000 on a launch and 100, 000 on paid advertising. I love it! It’s so great! And I, the more money I spend on it, the more excited I am to do this thing. You should not say to that person, Oh, you should bring me money every week. But if someone’s saying to me like, Oh, you know, I’m doing this launches and I’m so stressed. I’ve used five or fifty thousand, a hundred thousand dollar on [00:10:00] advertising. And I’m just staying up all night to thinking about, Oh, what should I do if I don’t sell? I lost hundred, what, what should I do with money? If that’s the concern, then it’s another business model. So I think that’s also part of it, what you’re really enjoying and like to do. Maria: I’ve been fascinated lately because I see some people in our space and they are kind of promoting the, the idea that a lot of gurus are giving them a recipe that isn’t working and that people have to find their individual recipe. And I’m still a bit torn between, because like personally and with my values, I truly believe that. We have different ways of doing things. We have different things we like. Like I talked to a client and she said, everyone says I have to post in social media like this and this many times a week, but it makes me real, like it makes me sick. I literally want to throw up. Like I can’t do it. It adds, it’s adding so much stress. And I’m like, why are you doing it? Like, even if a person tells you that this is a smart idea, if your whole system says like, this is wrong, this is wrong, don’t do it. [00:11:00] Like find, find someone else. But also I feel that, or I see that. Our clients, they need us to have that certainty because I, for example, in the first year we launched a program where we tried to be really smart and we tried to put a lot of different kind of ways to do things into the program because we knew that they were different. So we weren’t, it Petter Erik: was not smart, but we just tried to be smart. Maria: Yeah. And then we put so many options into the program and what happened was that people got overwhelmed because they didn’t know what to do. And when people pay us to help them, they want us to tell them what to do in which order. So I’m still a bit torn between, that’s why I came up with this idea on the podcast episode, between the like, when do you find your own way and when do you follow the recipe? Petter Erik: I think it’s back to if someone likes to post in social media five times a day, And they don’t believe that paid advertising is the right way they should not work with us. I think it’s so easy I’m, just i’m always telling this in the sales call I had a sales call with a person for three weeks ago, and [00:12:00] he was in that business place where you was talking about, Oh, you know, I got this message. I need to post five times. So in social media had a mentor. I mean, I didn’t post I get a message. What’s wrong with you today? And it’s like, and this was area. And so what are your point in opinion about this? He said, you know, I’ve never posted in social media, or I post if I am inspired. If I like it, I don’t want to post in social media because someone telling me that’s the strategy to do that I I don’t like organic traffic I’m not a fan of it or i’d like to have likes and all this thing But i’m not like I don’t want to wake up every morning to do all this thing So I said you don’t need to do it what we are teaching is more paid advertising That’s the fastest way to grow a business. It’s the easiest fastest way to grow a business Yeah, it costs money, but you can grow and you can scale much faster than doing social media but if someone are don’t like it don’t you want to use the paid advertising and they want to take the slow lane be really [00:13:00] slowly use three years to start to make money having this life then they of course they can do social media and post five times a day and do it’s like the fast track or the slow track it’s up to them why did you start to laugh now, Maria? Maria: Because I love your way of making people feel like your way is the best way and the other way is just ridiculous. Yeah, Petter Erik: it’s the best way. Maria: No, but I see people do things like, and be active in social media. And for me, there’s something in me that is drawn to that. But I’m not sure if I want to put down the amount of work that is needed to get, as you say, the visibility. There’s something about, for me, that’s, that’s about Being able to inspire and being able to just talk about things that I care about That’s why I’m doing this podcast. And for me, I feel like social media is it’s a platform where I could do that more And of course with us doing this podcast We are already doing it in social media because we have team members that is posting in our in our social media, which is great Petter Erik: Yeah, that’s great. Maria: But but but I I there are some people that that have real success [00:14:00] with it And I I love how you how you are. So certain about You Like, my way is the best way to do it, but is there any time when you have a client and you, you kind of derive from the normal advice that you would give? Petter Erik: Client does are not doing stuff, but the best way that I believe that they should do it. And then I thinking, okay, it’s better that they do what they’re doing now. They’re not doing anything because I think the most important thing is to do stuff. But I had a part of what we’re talking about. I had a job interview with a person who are applying for a job to work with us. And she said this in, um, In the interview, like, so it’s kind of what I talked about now, but I actually said something like, so why are you using why are not using YouTube? Because YouTube, every coaches in the world are using YouTube. Now they’re building a YouTube channel and blah, blah, blah. And she talked about that. And I was saying, Yeah, that’s a strategy. If you like it, build a YouTube channel. It’s not over strategy to build a YouTube channel. [00:15:00] We have a podcast now that we are building up and that’s over organic traffic. So I’m not saying that you should not do organic traffic, but if you want to do organic traffic, well, it’s also a podcast. You should do something that you like to do. I like to make a podcast. I don’t like to do social media every day. I want to do something that I think is fun to talk about. That’s also why we have this podcast. I think this is so important for every entrepreneur that they are not doing a podcast because someone told them that’s the right direction. You need to go also to feel inside. Of course, because it’s two different things. I can tell. a client that are coming to me, this is the right way. But another thing is like, if they choose to work with us, they also choose the way that we are teaching stuff. So I’m saying to everyone that I, for example, have a sales call with, If you don’t believe in what I’m telling you if what the advice I have to you if the things that I’m telling you It’s not it’s not for Something that you want to do [00:16:00] don’t work with us That’s what i’m saying and I had a client for a couple of weeks ago Was I like, you know, it looks so much to do when I work with you So I will continue to have him that’s fair because again, she want to build her business in the way that fits her so generally when I talk with You people that are not working with us, I’m maybe not so hard on what the method is, but if we start to work with us, they are choosing to listen to us. And then I also need to be certain of what I’m teaching. And I think that’s the same thing with every thing you’re doing, not only being a mentor with sales and marketing, if you’re a personal trainer and have a way that you’ll say, this is the best way, I think you should stick to it. Because Maria: I’m just thinking when, when you say, talk about personal trainers, I want my personal trainer to tell me what to do. And sometimes my personal trainer, she’s great. She’s asking me, what do I think? And sometimes I feel like I have, I want to choose something, but most days I’m like, just, I trust you. I want you to tell me what to do, because then I don’t have to use. It’s kind of time and, and, and energy on it. And I think that’s part of like why [00:17:00] people choose a mentor in the first place is that they want to, as I said, they want to have the recipe for, for what to do and not have to spend energy on trying to figure out how to do it because that’s, that takes a lot of energy. And especially in the market where there’s so many different options and, and advice and different ways of doing things. Petter Erik: Yeah, that’s what people are paying for. It’s like you’re saying I’m coming to my personal trainer and he’s just have a program for me and saying, telling me what to do. I don’t think I just do it. And I think the same thing is what people want us to do. They don’t want to think they just want to get step by step. And if you are a yeah. business coach or if you are a consultant or if you are a dog trainer or whatever, you just like, tell me what to do and I will do it. That’s what I’m looking for when I’m finding someone who are expert on some stuff. a coach or a mentor or something for you in your life, what what is the criteria to take a decision on who you should work with? Maria: That’s an interesting question, [00:18:00] because I think I, I’m, this is about when I, when I go to Norway to vote, like in the election. For me, it’s very much like an intuitive knowing. And I think that intuitive knowing has to do with, resonating with the person’s energy or resonating with a person on how they speak or resonating with a person, of course, also their method. But, but I think first, the first thing for me is just, do I like them? Like, is this the person that, that seems authentic, that I can trust, that I, that I, um, feel can inspire me. And there’s also something about just, just knowing that they are on a higher level. Sometimes I have people that, that offer me services, or I worked with them before, and then I stop because I feel like, even if they’re really good at what I’m, like, what I want to learn from them, for me it’s also a point that they’re actually good at other things, like they can inspire me on other areas, and I don’t know that that even makes sense, but, but there’s something about choosing mentors that [00:19:00] have come further and that can kind of demonstrate or, or inspire the life that I want to live, even if it It hasn’t to do exactly with the kind of program I’m, I’m, I’m choosing or I’m, I’m purchasing it is something about just, I want a person that can be a role model. making that decision is something that I kind of take seriously because I know sometimes I bought programs and, and, and, Mentors that weren’t good for me and I never went to them and asked for the money back because I always took that responsibility on myself. This is like, I think that Every person out in, in the market that is looking to buy advice, to buy, to buy a course, like they need to do research and they need to make a decision because it’s not possible to, to kind of half buy the course or half do the program. It’s, it’s something that you need to, to actually decide. So I always, like the times I’ve done a bad decision, I put it on [00:20:00] my, I kind of deducted the money from, from my account on like a mistake account. So I learned something. Petter Erik: totally agree with you and that’s one thing that frustrate me with people that want, for example, they’re coming to us and asking for money back. And, uh, because it’s kind of my values that if I buy something that doesn’t work for me, It’s my mistake. It’s not someone else. And this is like I’m, um, this is also why we have changed our target niche a little bit because we want people to take responsibility for what they’re doing and not having, uh, people who are coming to us and buying a magic pill. and that’s kind of a mindset, because I never ask for money back for anything I bought in mentoring and I bought for many, many, many hundred thousand dollars. that’s not what we’re talking about. I think it’s also important that when you choose a mentor, you also need to take responsibility for doing the stuff you should do. It’s like, well, I hear this thing. Oh, what you are teaching is not working. [00:21:00] And then we go in and see, so have you done what we’re teaching? I remember one woman was like, she was really telling me that, you know, your method is not working. I want the money back. And then I said, If you do it right it works and I said let me see your landing page for a webinar I saw that and she was promoting two webinars on the same time with two different Topics on the same page. I said I never Told you to do this and then I looked at ads the ads was Totally different what we are teaching. I never told you to do this and then I asked her Yeah, but we have a process that are working but not following it. So why can you ask for money back? Well, I don’t believe in the process. I want to do it my own way. And I say, so why did you buy a package from us if you don’t believe in our process? It’s like, I know it’s working. So, so I also think this is when we get clients, we need to have people who are following and believing what we are saying. And if they lose trust to us, they should also find someone else. Maria: how does your decision making process look when you are [00:22:00] buying a mentor or a coach? Petter Erik: Take me two seconds I just see something that resonates with me and i’m saying thinking like this is something That, uh, will help me now, so I don’t, so it’s kind of the same like you’re saying it need to be someone who are one step ahead, and I think one thing that I learned for myself, I want a mentor that are challenging my belief system, because I think if I’m going to get better in a workout, better in health, better in fitness, better in mentoring people, better in sales and marketing, it needs to be someone who’s We’re challenging what I have believed all my life because I think I will be a better mentor if I get to the next level that someone are teaching me something that I don’t believe in. So I’m kind of doing the opposite of maybe our clients. I want to get challenged. I want to hear something that are new for me so I can get to the next level. Maria: And while you’re speaking, I’m thinking this is really interesting because we [00:23:00] talk a lot about, When we hire people, we use the values like we hire on values because the skills can be taught, but I actually was thinking when you were talking that we are also choosing mentors based on values we are, at least for me, that’s, that’s got clear when you were, you were speaking. This is about, this is about values. This is about like demonstrating some kind of attitude towards life that is attractive to me. And I think that’s, that’s sometimes what happens with our clients as well. Like they, they see us. Being authentic, like, doing weird stuff, not being perfect in English, like, looking like we do, there’s a lot of things that, and they feel like this is, these are authentic people, and also because we talk about our struggles, and we talk about the time we had to bankrupt the old company, and that’s why people trust us, because they’re, they just trust us. kind of get to know us authentically. Petter Erik: Yeah. So why, why I still have Todd Brown, like the mentor is like what he’s doing right now. He’s 49, 50, no over 50 years, I think [00:24:00] around that 49, 50, 51. And he was, uh, doing, uh, Bodybuilding when he was younger and then it shows for one and a half year ago that he want to start Bodybuilding again and he really get fit Around 50 and now he’s even taking it to the next level and get fitter And I think that’s it’s also something that i’m looking for a mentor now. It’s not about only Having a mentor that are good with entrepreneurship and say it’s a marketing for me anymore It’s also someone who are living a life outside and taking something that are You What’s not about the business is something else they’re doing in life that are really impressing not only the result with the business, but also seeing that they Because Todd Brown liked to do bodybuilding. He’s like, it’s something he did when he was young and he liked it and enjoy it. It’s something that challenged him. And I think also to find a mentor, I remember we had, for many years ago, we was going to find a mentor and we got a, we had a talk with a guy who told us that he was [00:25:00] working 15 hours per day. And it was like, I don’t want to have a mentor that are working 15 hours to the day. I want to have someone who are working less and can take off time and take all this thing. I have mentor in many aspect of life. Now I have a health mentor. I have a business mentor. I also have some sales and marketing mentor. And I am also looking for I find figure out I want to do a bicycle trip in Nepal next year. So no, I’m also looking for a bicycle mentor. But I think what is important for me is also the authentic bike. Part of it. there is someone who are working in our market and our niche that I just hate I just I don’t like them at all. It’s just when I see the face of them on facebook I want to click and and I think they destroy the business we are in because they’re just about money They’re just talking about how much money I made how much money I made look here how cool car I have Look here [00:26:00] at the big house. I have look here and all this thing and they’re using it like a You to bring in people that are just want to make money. But I think I’m doing entrepreneurship because it’s challenging myself to go to the next level. Of course, the money is a part of it. So you get money when you challenge yourself to go to the next level. But but the drive drive is not the big house. The drive is not a Ferrari. The drive is not that. I also think that’s also when I’m looking for other mentors. If someone are just showing the six pack or showing how fit they are, but they have a crappy life. That’s not the mentor. I want. I want to see a mentor at our healthy and living a health or a life that I enjoy to do. Maria: And I think for me, it’s, I think it’s pretty similar what you say. I sometimes feel like people are presenting a version of themselves in social media. That seems very, you know, spiritual or very like wealthy or very something. And then when I get to know them or I see like [00:27:00] the behind the scenes, it’s their life is just totally different. And of course, I understand that that social media is for presenting like the good side of you. So not everyone is putting everything including their bankruptcy out out there. That’s kind of okay. But there’s something about the the the knowing that it’s real and knowing that it’s a real person. And for me, also, the the the ups and downs of life is, is attractive. Like, I don’t want to have a mentor that seems to be perfect and never have any challenges because like, that’s not possible. I just don’t believe in it. I think it’s much more interesting to, to have a mentor that, that knows a lot of things and that, as you say, they have the growth mindset. They have the, they, they want to challenge themselves. They’re new, doing new stuff. And, and that has to do with the values that I already talked about. Petter Erik: So what are you taking away from discussing this with me today? Maria: That’s actually a good question because I was, I was standing here and thinking about it. And I think this is a really good discussion. And I think it’s a discussion that we should have more [00:28:00] often because in our space, we help people to actually sell themselves as a guru or as a mentor or as a teacher. And, and For some people, I know it can be hard to, to be like a strong kind of pressure of your own method and, and, and just know that you always, like, know the right thing to say. And I think it hasn’t to do with that at all. I think it has to do with, with as you say, or as I said, just giving people certainty about like what to do and that’s actually what they pay for. And then also trust that people are. able to make a decision that is good for them or choose like a mentor that is taking them in the direction that is the right direction for them. Petter Erik: I bought a program from Dan Kennedy was one of the old gurus or godfathers into direct response marketing. And he had a program called advanced coaching. And that’s how you get more paid for being a coach. And he says something that When you’re a mentor, there is like, [00:29:00] uh, basically some few things that they are buying from. They’re buying because they don’t want to do it by themselves. They’re buying it because, uh, they want someone to tell them what to do. And, uh, get that. They’re also buying it because if they don’t succeed, They can have someone to blame And also think that’s it’s important for us because sometimes we get people who are blaming us Or if you are a mentor sometimes we get people blaming the mentor, but it’s a part of human that we are looking for that So that’s also part of being a mentor. So if you are expert on something our mentor or something There will always be someone who are blaming you because they don’t get results so Maria, you say that you are taking bad decision or choose mentors to choose something that. You are taking responsibility for yourself. But out from that decision you made and you say like this was a bad decision, what I will learn from it and how are you using that like a process of [00:30:00] strategy to choose the right mentor for you when you’re going to have a new mentor? Maria: Now the most important thing I learned was really to trust my gut instinct. And, and it’s the same as we talk about in the recruitment process, if there’s something that feels a tiny bit off, even if all the words and all the pricing and all the pictures and everything looks like glorious, you just should, shouldn’t go with it. And so, so I think every time I made like a bad decision or I bought something that I ended up not using, or I just didn’t like the mentor or something, then I, my learning is just to be more aware of. Yeah. How does this make me feel? And, and what is my goal with this? And, and how do I make the decision? Because also sometimes I make decisions based on, like, fear. I make decision because I’ve, like, I need to do something now and, and I think this program will help me. And, and, like, last time I made a bad decision. That’s, that’s what happened. And so, so now I’m learning to kind of ease into the decision and just feel how, how does this feel? And do I resonate with this person? And does it feel right [00:31:00] to my values? And I think that’s, that’s my advice for other people as well. And I think this is a hard job. Like this is, and that’s why I think several, most people will have made like bad buying decisions while finding a mentor or, or a teacher sometime in their life. Because we are, we are kind of desperate to, to get somewhere. And sometimes we’re just fearful and, and we freak out and we we aren’t able to listen to ourselves. So I think that’s the, maybe the inspiration I want to bring to people. Learn to trust your instincts and, and be in a good place when you make a decision. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. 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